Toru Kuwakubo

When I paint something,
one stroke at a time is my basic unit from beginning to end.

This is a mountain here in Winter Sea and Graveyard, isn’t it?

It’s a mountain.

And there are a lot of balloons flying around.

Well, I was actually trying to paint snow. [laughs] Anyway, I wanted to make it snow-like, so I softly laid [the dots] down in the underpainting. And I thought it would be nice to have them in different colors. In end, I decided I just couldn’t get rid of them.

The round forms are underpainting, right?

Yes, I painted this work thinly.

How did you apply the color? In lines? Or did you daub it on here and there?

I started out happily painting the round snow forms. Later, I looked at the whole and added color where needed. The colors were much stronger. There was much more color. But I removed a lot.

Is this the way you usually paint?

Recently, I’ve been making the skies this way. Making them colorful. Before, I would lay down cloudlike forms and later apply white to them. The beautiful and vivid colors are all one layer.

In this work you seem to have returned to bright colors.

That’s right. This work is bright. Among the works here, this one is fairly recent. I originally intended to make it hazier. The drawing there is closer to my original vision. More quiet and fuzzy.

In the painting, there is both the dark feeling of an end-of-the-world revel and an atmosphere of strange silence.

Yes, it’s a big party. When visiting my mother’s grave I always notice all the flowers and how beautiful the graves look. The graveyard there is surrounded by mountains. It’s protected by these mountains in the distance.

(Gallery 2)

Do you always make drawings when you make paintings?

Not every time. I don’t make drawings for small paintings. This was my first time making big paintings, though, and I wanted to establish a groundwork to certain extent because you can’t make mistakes go away. Once the paint dries you can’t lay paint over it. I have to finish off the painting in a short time. Painting work in a single burst like this means that I can’t change or redo large areas.

Before you begin the work in earnest do you have a kind of warm-up during which you decide what will go where?

Yes, I do, because at this point I’m not used to working so large. With small works, I have more leeway to play around, but big works take a lot of time to redo.

Are there times when you decide to add to already painted areas?

Yes there are. Say I want to add another building to the painting. I can if it’s small, but the surface has a matiere that makes for bumpy brushwork. It’s interesting, but it bothers me sometimes. For the most part, my works are one-layered. The whole surface hardens into one layer, with colors on top mixed with those on the bottom, like on a palette.

Do you mix up your colors and then brush each on here and there throughout the canvas at one time?

Yes, I do it all at once. This time, however, I did discover various new ways to apply the paint.

Do you throw away failed canvases?

I don’t throw them away. I scrape everything off and start over again.

There are many different elements in Babel and Fruits.

The story of Babel, of how languages began, is a famous one. The tall tower is also a sculptural image. They sought to reach this lofty ideal with their tower, but of course things didn’t work out. I originally wanted to have a lot of trees in the painting. I even decided to stick them in halfway through at the risk of ruining the work. They really look less like trees than like frames for the buildings. I thought, That’s fine, whichever is fine. The top of the painting evokes leaves hanging down. In his painting: Where Do We Come From? What Are We? Where Are We Going? Gauguin traces the path of a human life. A figure in the center holds up an apple, evoking the myth of Adam and Eve. There is this feeling of imminent change.

The work is full of objects. Do they represent the Tower of Babel in different architectural styles?

That’s right.

Are they all existing structures?

No, it’s a mix.

Is this one on the right that building in London?

Yes, that well-known one. There are also some short Towers of Babel. There’s that famous Dubai hotel, here’s a bubble-wrap tower [laughs], and the Tate Modern, and the Guggenheim.

Do know what kind of paintings you’ll do next?

I haven’t had the chance to think about that yet.

After you gain some distance from the work for this exhibition, what would you like to try doing?

The big works were a challenge for me. I don’t think I can do anything too crazy. For the time being, I’ll stick with this new challenge of large paintings. Making them big is challenge enough. [laughs]
With small paintings, it’s easy to try out new things. What will change if I apply these things to a larger scale? This is another challenge. Medium-size canvases are fun.

Is this because you have more control over the whole image?

That’s probably right. It’s because I insist on using a small brush. That may change but for now I can’t see myself slapping pigment on with a big paintbrush. When I paint something, one stroke at a time is my basic unit from beginning to end. [laughs]

So that’s why the smaller and medium-size images allow you to try new experiments more immediately.

Yes. It can be the same black and the side of me that wants to apply it beautifully battles with the side that wants to paint it on dirtily. I know that if I use a flat brush I can get this lovely matte black. But is that it? I can always do this. Can always paint it in. I just keep painting and struggling along. I make adjustments along the way and if I fail sometimes that’s fine.