Toru Kuwakubo

There is always a fight between the side of me
that architecturally builds on my skills and
the side that wants to break things down.

I’d like to start by asking you about the exhibition title. What led you to title it “World Citizens with the White Boxes”?

When I was in Berlin last year for a solo show, I noticed bronze statues in the city center. They had this towering presence. Maybe I had always noticed statues in the city without really being aware of it. I’d like to make one myself, but I’m not at that stage in my work now. I had this idea in the back of my mind, and in Europe found people who resembled statues. I thought the big guy standing across from me in the train station, or the woman in stiletto heels ahead of me on the escalator, would be perfect in a painting. I didn’t see this quality in crowds of people, only in solitary figures. While I was in Berlin wondering why people were starting to look like statues, a friend happened to take me to hear live music. Everyone was so tall I couldn’t see a thing. I kept thinking: Ah, I can’t see...I want a box to stand on...If I only had a box. And in the Netherlands I noticed that the urinals are placed high on the wall. I could barely reach [laughs]. These experiences made me think it would be good to have a pedestal to stand on.
The white box is an abstract presence that contains one’s life‘very book one has read, for example. And, because of its weight, the box prevents you from moving. You can’t leave that spot. Its height reflects one’s self-esteem. One’s desire to be on top. The box improves your vantage point, allowing you to see far, and helps you quickly find what you’re waiting for. When I was painting and thinking about this idea, I happened to be listening to Ryuichi Sakamoto’s song, World Citizens. Although I don’t know anything about the song’s deeper meanings, I like it very much and thought the title had a nice ring to it. While I was overseas, I bought a small canvas and made a painting as a test. I just painted this abstract white box with a sculptural human figure standing on it. When I got back to Japan, and Koyama-san asked me about doing a show, it was the only idea that came to mind, so I just started working with it.

Are the smaller works; "Citizen with the white box" in Gallery 2 part of this series?

Yes, they are a variation.

Is Atelier the first one you painted?

Right. I painted my studio. Thinking about my show at Koyama-san’s gallery, I knew I would need a studio to paint large works in, so I built one. I thought it would be fun to capture this building process in my painting. I painted what was in my head to record these memories. I imagined tiling the studio. Some of the things in the image didn’t exist beforehand, like the white box in the lower right hand side of the painting. Then I thought that this was the way it should be, and went ahead and actually made the box. And I later turned the sculptural forms on the carpet in the painting into real objects.

Are they sculptures?

Well, kind of. I always have a lot of pigment left over [laughs]. I brought some photos of them with me so please take a look. I made them just for fun, as a hobby.

They are objects made of pigment, all placed neatly on a base.Did your trip to Europe lead to any changes?

Perhaps in my sense of values. I gained the understanding that, in such a wide world, different people value different things. I was a little freaked out when I left for Berlin because of the offer to do the solo show at Koyama Gallery in April (2008). That left me no time at all! [laughs] I started to get nervous. Having been born in Japan, I naturally know a lot about the place, and know what kind of art the audience here values. I got scared thinking about the hierarchy here. Overseas, I didn’t know how the system worked, so I could avoid worrying what people there thought of me. I was wondering about all this at that time. Since I find it easy working with pastel colors, Atelier is a conservative work for me. Technically speaking, if you mix in a lot of white, the paint dries slower, making it simpler to use. I choose it partly for this no-risk quality》hough I probably shouldn’t say this [laughs]‖nd because it has clarity and beauty. Then again, there is something in me that wants to tear things down, to use the muddy oils and weird colors of Durer, or channel Modigliani’s beauty, which stemmed from his deep, muddy, dirty palette. I can’t paint like them because their ways of painting are completely different from mine, but I’m drawn to the destructive side of their work. For me, one big aspect of this show is that it reveals my inner polarities: the side of me that architecturally builds on my skills and what I’ve done so far, and the side that wants to break things down. I’ll finish a beautiful work and be relieved, and then want to paint something cloudy》o want to use grungy colors!gru There is always this divergence. The question of, which way to go next? Of course, in reality there are many more than two directions.

Which of the large works did you paint next?

This red work, "The Women with the White Boxes". I wanted to make it dark but without choosing a specific color.

You finished this work in one burst before it dried, didn’t you?

Dark colors dry a little faster. I discovered here that one layer of dark color can be beautiful. I found that laying it down thin gave me a lovely color.

How long did the works take to make?

It was essentially my first time making works of this size, and each one took about half a month. It was a bit of a struggle though....

Are these framed drawings studies for the paintings?

That’s right. The drawing is part of the architectural process I mentioned earlier, and it helps me envision the final image. The first impulse is always a playful one, and it would be tricky to apply this raw and pleasurable feeling directly to the canvas. So, I make a drawing just before working on the canvas to allow me to rough out the painting.

What led you to "A Poet’s Garden" series?

I got the idea from seeing the one of the gallery staff member’s desk [laughs] and I started making the drawing right next to this desk.

Your inspiration came from a desk stacked too high with books.

The work combines both light and dark tones.
Things in the works are always mixed.

The title of this is "A Poet’s Garden 2". There is also "A Poet’s Garden 1", isn’t there?

Yes, I showed "A Poet’s Garden 1" in Seoul. It’s smaller than this work but with the same stacks of books.

Why is part of the top of the canvas left unpainted?

I apply paint little by little. I originally left it with the ground showing through but got scared. I would paint in a little bit, then take few steps backward and look at it. In the process of filling in the image‖nd realizing there was no turning back！ left parts of the canvas unpainted. It would probably look better if I had filled it in, but I just chose not to. to

The painting has a Fauvist touch, doesn’t it? It’s hard to know if what we see flying around are pages, snow, or patterns. I heard that when you first started working, and decided you were a painter, you felt like you had a split personality. Has this mental state changed?

It has changed a great deal. Especially with this exhibition. That distance is now zero.

So now, painting comes naturally?

It’s natural. Before, when I used to paint, I felt disconnected to reality. The act was a peculiar thing for me. I wasn’t the type of artist who couldn’t live without painting, so painting was something separate from the everyday, something that I had to make a transition to every time. But now, thanks to all the pressure and preparation for a show like this, I’ve been thinking only about the paintings, and not my concepts. Earlier, I used to think more about words, and still wonder, at this late stage, if that’s what a painter should be doing. Now, more than before, I paint because I want to, regardless of whether the works are getting worse or not. If I mess up, the painting is just the result, and that’s fine. It may sound irresponsible though. And, I may want to do something but not have words yet to explain it. I’d like a little time to sort things out》o figure out what it was I was doing｜ut I don’t know right now because I was painting right up to the day before yesterday.

Your works using the ocean as motif have changed considerably. With your Seoul exhibition, you began to show seascapes featuring a widespread scattering of various things. Before this time, your ocean paintings showed the only the waves or surface of the sea. Have you moved away from this mode of depicting the ocean?

This time I simply wasn’t interested in painting the sea that way. But I will definitely pick up this motif again in the future.