The dialogues with materials

The works on paper on the seventh floor have a different feel from those on the sixth. Those on the sixth floor treat paper as a material and an extension of your sculpture, while the works on the seventh floor seem to be more figurative and more about drawing. Do your dialogues with materials at different times lead you to attribute different meanings and shapes to these materials?


The works on the sixth floor are early paper works. At this time, I was extremely involved with trying to alter our everyday perceptions of the real world. All the work from this period reflects my conscious effort to avoid looking at things as they appear, to see them in a new way. Looking at something that looks like a piece of paper, I might say “No, to me it looks this way,” in order to transform perception.

These works [on the sixth floor] date from 1975. Was this when you began making works on paper?

Kishio Suga

[6th floor] L to R "washed curcumference", 1975、"area of dependency", 1973、"deep rhythm of lights", 1975
© Kishio Suga

At first, I thought my paper work was cheap looking. Making what I thought were such cheesy works, I was really worried that I had lost it. As a result, I tried to somehow avoid making paper work. Then, however, I started reading Indian philosophy and learned that material is not merely about matter but can also be a medium for the spirit. Understanding this, I knew I couldn’t simply get rid of such a medium.
So, it arose from this philosophical idea. The philosophy led me to see mere paper in a new light. What did it mean to be planar, two-dimensional? What is behind the existence of matter? The material happened to be two-dimensional, and I didn’t like two-dimensional work at the time. So, I thought: “I’ll show them,” or “This is the way I see it,” or “What you people are drawing is lousy, but look what I can do with paper.”

You were very aggressive.

Right, at the time, I was very aggressive. I always look hostile in photographs from this time. With a couple more decades to go in the business, I guess I figured I’d better not have some half-hearted look on my face. I had this belligerent attitude: “Shit! I’m doing things this way!”
But there’s no aggression behind the paper works on the seventh floor. I traced branches. I borrowed my curves not from the manmade, but from nature. In a way, I’m relying on a higher power. I’ve always been a great believer in outside help, and nature has an infinite supply of what we lack. Here, reliance on something beyond myself feels very real to me.

Kishio Suga

[7th floor] installation view at Tomio Koyama Gallery, 2008
© Kishio Suga

Are all these works on paper made by tracing branches?

Yes, and the process begins where I find the branch. I have to engage myself bodily. It leads me to ask myself, “What is nature?” Walking, I find leaves and other things on the ground. “What kind of space is nature?” This is how I begin. I’m not there just for the raw materials. I use the branches out of a direct feeling for the character and qualities of the places I find them.

Some viewers of the plywood works on the wall see them as paintings. Do you see any difference between your sculptural works and the two-dimensional pieces?

My work is mostly object-based, but if you slap an object on the wall, it becomes a plane, right? For this exhibition, I thought a lot about how space can pressure an installation.
If you increase the pressure, you intensify the density. But you can’t let the density become too great; you have to diffuse it somehow. It’s in the way you show things. This is the system that I tried to introduce. If you keep stuffing things in, the space will explode, so you need a safety valve, and out of this arises your system, your structure. You first stand in the space and start pushing.

Kishio Suga

(*) installation view at Tomio Koyama Gallery, 2006
© Kishio Suga

Are these assumptions based on this space?

No, they’re part of my theory on surroundings. If what encircles you are your surroundings, you exist in this space and apply pressure to it. When pressure-causing people move within a space, the space also moves, setting everything in motion. The task then is how to stop the wobble, how to somehow anchor the space.
Before*, I was making works with air, but this time I wanted to see what would happen if I made things more substantial, if I applied pressure through objects. It resulted in a kind of layer. If you can’t see things this way, you will look at the plywood works and see nothing. How you acquaint yourself with the materials is critical.

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